To Mike:
Upon receiving your two-page tome of rants after my last (and final) comment to you, I have decided to SPAM you, something I have never done to a commenter before. I would suggest that if you have so much to say, and so much hatred to spew, you get your own blog. This is my venue. This was my decision.

Just one question to you Cher sweets -

does Jesus not say “go amongst the beggars, the poor and the downtrodden and there you will find me.” ?

Helloooo MIKE – Do You Remember that one my brother ?

also, was it not true that the followers of Jesus were warned about False Prophets and Fattening Golden Idols Above the Word/Love of God ?

have I missed something in the goodbook ? or is this the Rick Warren Version ? sorry butterah being an old downhome style christian woman, I just stick to the gnostic gospels and the Jerusalem Bible. I like to keep it original. none of that “New” testament jazz for me kids. I’ll take my funk uncut thank you very much.

Now lets all sing – “give me that old tyme religion it’s good enough for me”.

The initial post stated that in these dire economic times, I found it a bit over the top to request such a large sum of money from this congregation. It has been all over the NEWS media, or have you not checked there?

Your responses to me have not been Christ-like. You are defending a man, one whom I do not hate but with whom I disagree on this issue. Christians defend Christ. That is one problem with Big Box churches. Your very sentiments show that you are defending Rick Warren, not Christ. I may love the man as my brother in Christ, but I am not obligated by the Bible to love his actions. Is there no room in your church for disagreement? You are being quite disagreeable when you say ‘you pity me.’ I will pray for you on that one.

Furthermore, you may want to clarify Pastor Warren’s stance on Gays. Are they not also God’s children? I refer you to this link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wilson/rick-warren-mentor-tied-t_b_382480.html

In addition, I stated in my post that I prefer a small church with a sweet choir, rather than an orchestra, lighting and a stage. That is my preference. You claim Saddleback is not like that. I would challenge readers to visit You Tube and look up two videos:
1. Saddleback Church—Stage Lights
2. Marvelous King by Eric Lige (Saddleback Praise)

Finally, I do not wish to “show up” at your church. It is all over the Internet should anyone care to see it. My preference is for a small community church. That is where I believe the churches should be. It used to be that way. They were an integral part of neighborhoods, knowing the names, needs and problems of individuals. I am sure there is a place for your style of church. Just do not attempt to foist it on me. Do you think California is the only place with Big Box churches? I have attended several right here where I live. They are not for me. I also think you should read the various comments posted here. We encourage people to speak their minds. Do you, or are you above that?

As to your demand for a retraction, I would remind you that the Bible tells us to settle our disagreements outside courts of law. I take your demand as a threat. WWJD?

I am not sure what you mean by “stage shows”. What glamour is at Saddleback? Have you ever even been there or seen this? We were in high school Gymnasiums for 15 years before we got the property. We invested in it. The buildings there are also for our children and other fellowships so they have a home. Are you saying that they are not entitled to there own building or to be kept out from the cold too? And while on that subject who’s to say we haven’t already started 10,000 little churches? The building (which is an average church building at best) was put together and maintained by volunteers (of all different kinds) which keep the costs associated way down.

So I am assuming that you are conceding that you got something’s wrong in what you said about RK above? Don’t take my word check it because I think that you should clarify some remarks that you made as they were wrong.

I do think WWJD, that’s why I responded and I feel that my response was on the mark.

The support from Saddleback to Haiti will probably be to the Baptist churches there and whomever else needs it. I am not a part of that, I am one of those that call this my home church and I don’t think that RK has been portrayed correctly, at least on this issue and as stated it’s easily verifiable. I would appreciate retraction or at least a re-clarification of you original point now that this info has been provided. I think that’s fair, easily verifiable and as you say its WWJD. – right?

I agree that Crystal Cathedral is a little too much, in the 1980’s when they were doing that some very senior members of the church quit in protest. Chuck Smith in CM is also another fine example of big churches that work. Small churches are great – been to many and I have a few pastor friend that work them. But big churches can get things done. A little church can’t get things done – I know that when the Tsunami hit in 2004 Saddle back had a $1.1 million offering that Sunday that went straight to Thailand. That was followed up by 3 cargo planes loaded with stuff (water, medicine, blankets, diapers, etc) and a plane full of volunteers (doctors, dentist, nurses, college kids, etc) that landed and helped out for months. Stuff like that do not make the news. Small churches can’t do stuff like that but there are many small churches that partner with saddleback

If you’re in area and want to attend just show up, ask around and see for yourself. There’s nothing here that’s as you portray it to be. That plea was for people of the church and for people that are hurting that the church helps out. And if you or your readers are hurting and need help Saddleback can help with a job, food or shelter or what ever

Please reconsider what you said

It is admirable that you are helping to put a team together for Haiti. Our little church was in the Dominican Republic several years ago building a much needed church. If you take all that money you put into your stage shows from tithes, would God not be better served if the money went to build 10,000 churches rather than to glamorize your productions? You don’t answer to me. I am only a person with my rightful ability to have opinions. Think more about what Jesus would do, not me.

The request only went out to church members – we don’t want your money, if its that precious to you keep it. Members decided if they wanted to “invest” in this or not. In that letter he listed the charities that this money would go to.

Saddleback is really 4,000 little churches called home fellowships – that become a church when they meet together on weekend for fellowship.

RK already gave all of his money away from his book sales and paid back saddleback his whole salary for the last 30 years (this is known and tracked on the internet). I think that his yearly salary is one dollar. He has given his children pretty much the remainder of his fortune (book sales mostly).

If I remember right RK donated the money to charities for the poor in developing countries. There was a lot of money to donate so many charities could have benefited (its known that in 2004 he donated 14 million)

At this moment Saddleback is attempting to put together a team to go to Haiti and help out with logistics for things that they Haiti’s need like food, water, shelter, etc. And yes this weekend RK will probably ask for donations for this and you don’t have to donate.

So now that you know all of this what’s your real beef with him? Or are you going to continue to give false witness and drag down a man and his ministry that actually helping people?

http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspiring-people-and-stories/rick-warren-man-on-a-mission/article118935.html

Good hearing from you, Tamara!

Years ago when I first watched Jim and Tammy Baker on TV, I knew something was amiss. And it was. As years went on and I learned more about Tammy Baker, I came to believe that she was a woman of deep faith. Together, though, they somehow got side-tracked.

Yes, how come all these people don’t understand it’s a show and a scam! I mean 2.4 million dollars!! For what?!!

Some pastors are preaching from their homes, coffee shops or just reaching out in communities and letting THE WORD be shown through a quiet love. It is not about Rick Warren “pleasing everyone.” It is about pleasing God.

What your small church did, along with others which helped, was indeed to reach out to help the poor. In so doing you also fed their souls. I’m sure they never forgot, and you were able to sow mustard seeds. That is the intent of FAITH, not selling glitz with glam while people hunger.

And lest we forget, forgiveness cannot be purchased.

When we lived in Nashville, our small church partnered with other small churches to provide a clinic for the working poor. On a shoe-string budget they provided care for hundreds, but they could have provided for thousands if the mega churches got involved. The mega churches said we should be focus more on converting people and therefore “saving souls” rather than trying to “heal the earthly flesh.” How sad, plus what better way to make people want to be Christians than to reach out to those suffering.

Seems there are always two camps on this; those like St. Francis who want more down-to-earth religion without all the fancy trappings and those who want to clothe the message in the trappings of wealth (including themselves).

And your reference to the materialism of this society is indicative of our lack of practicing faith as well as, perhaps, a plethora of warm-huggy preachers who have forgotten that one of the attributes of God listed in the Bible is Anger.

A little more fire and brimstone and a little less warm words and hugs, please.